Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: 1/29/12

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: 1/29/12
- bmeltzer

I didn't watch the skills competition, but follow along on twitter, it seems the Flyers there did well.

I wonder how Al Iafrate or Al MacInnis would have done in the hardest shot competition if they had one of those composite rocket launchers.

The breakaway challenge is just really stupid in my opinion. Players trying to do incredibly difficult things with the puck that they would never attempt or is illegal to attempt in a game. I'd much rather see some of the sweet "real" moves like the ones Giroux has shown, then that nonsense.

Bill- do you think an offer of JVR, Coburn and a #1/prospect could land Weber?

Bill- do you think an offer of JVR, Coburn and a #1/prospect could land Weber?
- MFC

I'm not Bill, but I'll give you my opinion. I would say no, that wouldn't get it done.

Bill- do you think an offer of JVR, Coburn and a #1/prospect could land Weber?
- MFC

If I am the Flyers I might do that deal. If i am Nashville, I politely say to Homer, "no thanks", and hang up the phone.

Bill- do you think an offer of JVR, Coburn and a #1/prospect could land Weber?
- MFC

Here's the thing. Next year that would be overpaying for an impeding UFA. This season, Weber remains untouchable and that offer would not sway a change of heart.

Also, keep in mind that while Weber would be an upgrade on Coburn (not a knock on Cobie), it would still leave the Flyers in need of another 20-minute defenseman.

I didn't watch the skills competition, but follow along on twitter, it seems the Flyers there did well.

I wonder how Al Iafrate or Al MacInnis would have done in the hardest shot competition if they had one of those composite rocket launchers.
- Jsaquella

Iafrate, MacInnis or Dave Manson probably would have been capable of 110 MPH shots if they used composite sticks instead of wood.

Here's the thing. Next year that would be overpaying for an impeding UFA. This season, Weber remains untouchable and that offer would not sway a change of heart.

Also, keep in mind that while Weber would be an upgrade on Coburn (not a knock on Cobie), it would still leave the Flyers in need of another 20-minute defenseman.
- bmeltzer

That's kind of my line of thinking. Sure you get a fairly big upgrade on Coburn, but at the same time, the lesser defensemen are still playing similar minutes, because Coburn already plays over 20 a night.

Iafrate, MacInnis or Dave Manson probably would have been capable of 110 MPH shots if they used composite sticks instead of wood.
- bmeltzer

I forgot Manson. He had a cannon, too.

That's kind of my line of thinking. Sure you get a fairly big upgrade on Coburn, but at the same time, the lesser defensemen are still playing similar minutes, because Coburn already plays over 20 a night.
- Jsaquella

I rather have Weber playing those 20mins a night over Coburn. The Flyers could still send a pick and acquire another defenseman at the deadline (like Gill). Doesn't really matter cause Nashville isnt trading him especially with where they sit in the standings.

I rather have Weber playing those 20mins a night over Coburn. The Flyers could still send a pick and acquire another defenseman at the deadline (like Gill). Doesn't really matter cause Nashville isnt trading him especially with were they sit in the standings.
- stveshdy

The last part is especially true. I don't think that the offer is enough to pry him, even if Nashville was willing to deal Weber.

But theoretically, the deal proposed is upgrading Coburn at the cost of JvR. Plus with trading the 1st rounder, I'd be loathe to move another pick for Gill

Iafrate, MacInnis or Dave Manson probably would have been capable of 110 MPH shots if they used composite sticks instead of wood.
- bmeltzer

Let's put an * next to Chara's mark.

The last part is especially true. I don't think that the offer is enough to pry him, even if Nashville was willing to deal Weber.

But theoretically, the deal proposed is upgrading Coburn at the cost of JvR. Plus with trading the 1st rounder, I'd be loathe to move another pick for Gill
- Jsaquella

I dont see the Flyers making any "big" move until the summer time. Whether that is through free agency or trade is to be determined. The asking price for most of the defenseman that are available (by TDL) is just ridiculous. If im not able to add a player of Webers caliber its not worth moving anyone. As much as I like Suter im not willing to take the chance that he will walk after the season (why pay a high price for an UFA).

I dont see the Flyers making any "big" move until the summer time. Whether that is through free agency or trade is to be determined. The asking price for most of the defenseman that are available (by TDL) is just ridiculous. If im not able to add a player of Webers caliber its not worth moving anyone. As much as I like Suter im not willing to take the chance that he will walk after the season (why pay a high price for an UFA).
- stveshdy

All very good and valid points. I agree with them, I don't want to see a major move that doesn't clearly push them ahead of Boston or New York, which seems to be impossible, anyhow.

Also the long term ramifications of adding a big contract make me worry a bit.

All very good and valid points. I agree with them, I don't want to see a major move that doesn't clearly push them ahead of Boston or New York, which seems to be impossible, anyhow.

Also the long term ramifications of adding a big contract make me worry a bit.
- Jsaquella

Maybe homer should just tinker not look for the big score.

I forgot Manson. He had a cannon, too.
- Jsaquella

You know who else did: former Phantoms defenseman Jamie Heward. He was a bit one-dimensional and slow of foot, but man oh man could he blast the puck from the point. His presence on the power play was a big part of the Phantoms first Calder Cup.

All very good and valid points. I agree with them, I don't want to see a major move that doesn't clearly push them ahead of Boston or New York, which seems to be impossible, anyhow.

Also the long term ramifications of adding a big contract make me worry a bit.
- Jsaquella

If the Flyers were to get Weber or Suter I dont want to see another 8-10 year contract with a NMC. I dont like committing more than 5-6 years max to a player. Obviously if you get one of these players thats probably going to happen. I dont think any player is worth that kind of committment bc it keeps you strapped. Its hard for a player to live up to the contract as it is but hoping they can perform over 8-10 years is too much of a gamble in my opinion.

Maybe homer should just tinker not look for the big score.
- ob18

That's what I want to see. I have no issue with trading a draft pick for a solid defenseman, but outside of that...

You have a good, talented group of kids. The draft is going to be deep and have a lot of solid players. Why rush now for a big name that you can get in the summer, especially if you're going to have to scramble to keep him(both Weber and Suter would have to be re-signed).

Even guys like Gleason, Allen and Spacek seem too pricey for my taste. If Carolina wants a 1st rounder for any of those three, I walk away.

I would consider a deal that brings in a young defenseman, who could grow with the current young core of Giroux, Couturier, Schenn and others. Even though that would likely cost one of the young forwards, if the deal is good enough, go ahead and do that.

If the Flyers were to get Weber or Suter I dont want to see another 8-10 year contract with a NMC. I dont like committing more than 5-6 years max to a player. Obviously if you get one of these players thats probably going to happen. I dont think any player is worth that kind of committment bc it keeps you strapped. Its hard for a player to live up to the contract as it is but hoping they can perform over 8-10 years is too much of a gamble in my opinion.
- stveshdy

The reason you get those contracts is so you can fit the guy under the cap. In a case like Weber, I'd be willing to go with an 8 year deal, because it's the only way to keep his cap hit under $7.5mm.

That's the rub, you're adding years to get a more workable cap hit in the present.

The reason you get those contracts is so you can fit the guy under the cap. In a case like Weber, I'd be willing to go with an 8 year deal, because it's the only way to keep his cap hit under $7.5mm.

That's the rub, you're adding years to get a more workable cap hit in the present.
- Jsaquella

I agree. Weber is what 26? I'd absolutely be in favor of a longer deal to keep the AAV lower.

I would consider a deal that brings in a young defenseman, who could grow with the current young core of Giroux, Couturier, Schenn and others. Even though that would likely cost one of the young forwards, if the deal is good enough, go ahead and do that.
- Jsaquella

That's what I'd do I think. Set yourself up for a real solid run in 1-3 years time rather than waste assets for this year. Unfortunately, Kimmo may not be here past next year, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Maybe he hangs around on the semi-cheap if the core looks really good by that time.

I agree. Weber is what 26? I'd absolutely be in favor of longer deal to keep the AAV lower.
- MJL

Yep. Both Weber and Suter are young enough to give an 8 or 10 year deal to and expect a similar level of play throughout.

I understand the concern with guys like Bryzgalov getting 9 years at age 31, but I don't think anyone expects him to play until 40 years of age.

The reason you get those contracts is so you can fit the guy under the cap. In a case like Weber, I'd be willing to go with an 8 year deal, because it's the only way to keep his cap hit under $7.5mm.

That's the rub, you're adding years to get a more workable cap hit in the present.
- Jsaquella

Weber (27yrs old) for eight years isnt terrible cause he will be 35 when the deal is over. The only thing that worries me is that a player of his caliber (who is physical) seem to wear down. Its a risk to sign any player to that long of a contract.

That's what I'd do I think. Set yourself up for a real solid run in 1-3 years time rather than waste assets for this year. Unfortunately, Kimmo may not be here past next year, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Maybe he hangs around on the semi-cheap if the core looks really good by that time.
- eayost

I'm looking at that as well as a possible free agent addition either this summer or next. Who knows if Pronger wakes up in a week or so, feels great and has no setbacks. If he can play next year-maybe unlikely, but not impossible-then you have $4.91mm on the salary cap and little room to hang onto a Suter or whomever.

So not only would you have traded assets to land the guy, you'd be moving more out to fit him under the cap.

Now say they get a guy like Luke Schenn. He's signed for a few years, at a reasonable cap hit and only 22. There's certainly others, such as Jack Johnson, who could be had according to rumors.